德国kita第一天

kanojot

我们选择的是tagesmutter，一对中年夫妇带三个孩子，我觉得比kita好多了

langbeibei828

muerustc 发表于 2014-11-4 14:11
谢谢大家热心回复，一条条都看了，学到不少。是不是3岁以上就要上Kindergarten了？这两天就开始去参观周围 ...

4个人50个孩子。。。。这是养猪还是放羊啊，赶紧换吧。。

muerustc

Liv 发表于 2014-11-5 13:17
不一定是人家坑你。也许人家没有孩子或则她的孩子没有上幼儿园，所以不清楚罢了。

I hope so. I told her yesterday that I concerned about it a little bit, she immediately told me that she could promise me it was one of the best, and I was not able to find anything better. That makes me feel pretty bad.

Today there were more teachers around and it indeed became better than the previous couple of days. But the organization is still quite messy.

宝宝乖乖

德国幼儿园老师的门槛太低了。素质都不高,而且现在老师太少孩子太多,根本看不过来。说是老师看孩子,还不如说孩子自己找乐子

clareapple

德国公立幼儿园就这水平，和国内好多私立的幼儿园真没法比。更像托儿所吧

sophia0515

LZ还是换家幼儿园这家确实不太行
话说你从美国搬来德国估计要一段时间适应，美国人很喜欢小孩子对孩子容忍度比较高但是德国人不喜欢小孩的挺多，对孩子很多时候比较冷漠点  可能需要时间适应

cerorong

幼儿园和幼儿园差别太大了，我家男娃3岁，从1岁半开始上u3.3岁以后要转Kindergarden .我参观了不下10家幼儿园，发现幼儿园和幼儿园差别太大了，一定要相信妈妈的第一感觉。刚开始上了一个朋友强烈推荐的小幼儿园，因为他有3个小朋友都上那家，加之当时没其它好选择就上了那家。虽然我一直对那家的老师心存疑惑，但朋友再三说德国人就是面冷心热。没想到去第一天娃手指被门夹成香肠，老师觉得还磕磕碰碰很正常。第二天送娃后偷偷在门外偷看，娃一个人在门口哭没人管，不哭了也是一个人孤零零在那儿站着，没有人招呼搭理。第三天让他爹去送娃观察。回来一致决定果断中止了，宁愿自己在家边带边找，直到满意的再去。好在很快以前参观比较满意的一家给了位子，娃基本上没哭，很快就和老师建立起了感情，适应期我几次偷看，都见到娃依偎坐在老师怀里，跟别的小朋友一起玩。现在问娃永远都说每个人都不害怕，就怕当初第一个幼儿园的老师，相信自己娃，相信妈妈的感觉。觉得当时果断转园太英明了。

Liv

muerustc 发表于 2014-11-6 17:47
I hope so. I told her yesterday that I concerned about it a little bit, she immediately told me th ...

个人感受不一样的。你从美国来，习惯那边的方式，她在德国，她认为距离最近就是最好。

我当初生孩子的时候也是，找医院，所有人都说，距离最近的最合适，其它神马都是浮云。生完后我想说，扯淡！~

所以你不用纠结她说什么了。 给孩子找幼儿园根找保姆是一样的，纯粹看个人喜好，别人只能提供一些objective的信息，比如位置，价钱，开放时间等。

JB2010

the main prob of kindergarten within Germany at the moment is lack of employees, the cause of it is the extreme low and unfair income, that's what I believe. hopefully it will get better some stage, same for the carers of elder people. well, I can't say its just like this everywhere  in Germany, but in my boy's kindergarten, its so. yeah, unfortunately!  but you should bare it in mind also about that, kids know much more than what we think. well, the good thing is that yrboy is almost 3, so you could teach him to protect himself and so on. mine is almost 4 and a half, I still get nervous when I see the way he plays in kita, luckilky he haven't hurt himself by the way which makes me nervous.  But as you know too, accidents can happen anywhere...

JB2010

the kindergartens in Germany belong to the church, they are independent actually, and they don't allow the government putting a hand into their business.

neuron

muerustc 发表于 2014-11-6 17:47
I hope so. I told her yesterday that I concerned about it a little bit, she immediately told me th ...

发帖抱怨真的没有用，包括和你的秘书抱怨也没有用。尽快找其他的，口碑好的幼儿园，把孩子尽快转走才是正理。你家现在这个太差了，不是德国美国的区别，是差劲幼儿园和好幼儿园的区别。我儿子的幼儿园是大学的，收费也不高，但是老师很好，孩子很喜欢。

muerustc

Thanks to everyone. We visited several and applied to two so far. Seems like it's up to the city to decide who will get a position. But one of them told us it takes at most several months to get one position, another said maybe one year. Keep looking. Hopefully can get a solution soon.

sales_NMG

kita不好。师资力量不够。一般小班是2个老师看10个小朋友

utopia2014

之前看一个中国妈妈的微博，说瑞士幼儿园也比德国好很多，也是一个老师看两三个孩子，气氛很和谐，但是贵，费用高，他们两口调到瑞士上班那一两年是真心喜欢瑞士的幼儿园。

krap

muerustc 发表于 2014-11-7 12:07
Thanks to everyone. We visited several and applied to two so far. Seems like it's up to the city to  ...

这在德国是正常的，我们一般都是宝宝还没有出生就去登记了，排宝宝一岁时候的托儿所位置。幼儿园相对情况好一些。不过都是要不停的去问，去催，才可能早拿到位置。。剩下的就是运气。。

krap

楼主家去的这个托儿所确实听着不靠谱。。我家大宝两岁半了，去过两个托儿所，第一个10个月去的，呆到一岁半多。现在的这个也呆了9个月了。两个托儿所一个是Verein的一个是公立的，都是一个小班10个宝宝，两个全职，一个半职老师带。宝宝的老师都很好，这一点从宝宝对老师的反馈就知道了。如果宝宝早上喜欢去幼儿园，在家里还念叨着老师还有幼儿园的小朋友，去了就直奔人家怀里，你就可以放心了。

另外说的是，这两个幼儿园硬件条件第一个差一些，第二个是市政府新造的passiv haus，硬件没得说。但是第一个幼儿园的门也都装了防夹手的装置。。所以楼主选的这个幼儿园确实不是很理想。

neuron

muerustc 发表于 2014-11-7 12:07
Thanks to everyone. We visited several and applied to two so far. Seems like it's up to the city to  ...

该申请kindergarten了。如果真心需要位置，申请２个是不够的。

muerustc

Today received an letter saying that we got a place in one that we applied, starting from next year. It belongs to the city. They accept children from 2-6 (two programs: 2-3 and 3-6). We'll take him there to have a look if he likes it or not.

muerustc

Some more update. In 2 days we are going to take our baby for a enrollment interview in the day care who gave him an offer. Hope he will like it.

Now there's another problem. Yesterday his daycare called us to tell that his teacher was sick and ask if we could keep him home. OK it was fine for one day. And today we went, they say that the teacher would not be in for the whole week, and asked us to take him home again. I really don't like this since he is still under transition phase, and this is not good to make a routine for him at all. And later, I cannot afford to keep him home whenever a teacher is sick, or in vacation, or in strike...

krap

muerustc 发表于 2014-11-18 13:47
Some more update. In 2 days we are going to take our baby for a enrollment interview in the day care ...

我不明白的是，你们既然明年要去新的幼儿园了，为什么还在老的适应呢？还是还没有定下来？

关于老师生病确实是件麻烦事，如果已经适应了，还可以其他老师带带。在适应期里就只有推迟了，适应期的老师应该是固定的。不过老师也是人，也可能生病，所以。。没有什么办法..

muerustc

krap 发表于 2014-11-18 14:13
我不明白的是，你们既然明年要去新的幼儿园了，为什么还在老的适应呢？还是还没有定下来？

关于老师生 ...

Because nobody can help us on December. So we hope that he can get used to the fact that he needs to go to school to play with others, and also learn some German.

Maybe I'm expecting too much. He had been to 2 different daycare centers before and we know what a good teacher can do with good organization. Especially his first teacher in the previous school, she was a magic. I gradually realize that here people take time to let the child get into it slowly. But it really took him only a minute to like and trust that teacher, less than an hour to be comfortable with the classroom and less than one day to like that school. He moved to the next age group in June, and until now he still talks about her.

krap

muerustc 发表于 2014-11-20 10:00
Because nobody can help us on December. So we hope that he can get used to the fact that he needs  ...

恩。。愿望是很好的，不过现实可能不一定会那么顺利。
楼主家宝宝才两岁半，频繁的换幼儿园，也要看宝宝性格是不是那么容易接受新环境。
12月有至少3分之一是假期，也就是说就20天的时间，我觉得语言学习是一个长期的过程，20多天真不能期望太多。
根据我家两次适应的经验，就算适应了一个幼儿园，到晚上可以4点接他也有一个漫长的过程，是一天一天一周一周把时间拖长的。。

不知道米国幼儿园是不是这样适应，难不成过去把孩子放下父母就可以走了吗？!

muerustc

krap 发表于 2014-11-20 10:09
恩。。愿望是很好的，不过现实可能不一定会那么顺利。
楼主家宝宝才两岁半，频繁的换幼儿园，也要看宝宝 ...

our experience last year. I really miss the 2nd school. And my son too.

我家一岁半的小狼最近转学了。他看起来特别喜欢新的 daycare, 搞得我和LG每天都琢磨，倒底这个新“学校”有啥魔力。

其实我们对前一家也没什么不满的，也是参观了很多之后名列第二的候选，因为第一候选要排很长的队，狼从6周起就被我们送去了这家。后来上到11个月，我妈帮忙看了半年，然后9月份又重新回去从婴儿班升到了toddler班。在toddler班的第一天哭了大概十分钟，过了两三天之后就每天很开心地跑来跑去了，吃饭也不错，只是每天下午去接的时候就挂在我身上不肯下来。刚刚在这玩熟了就接到了第一候选的通知说有位置了（排了两年），犹豫了半天之后决定还是去看看吧。所以在第一家这次实际上也就呆了三星期，然后就转了。我们做好了准备他要再哭闹几天的。果然第一天放下他离开的时候哭得很伤心，但是下午去接的时候他无比的平静呀，看见我们就笑笑地跑过来，没有哭闹也没有挂在我身上，就伸出手来让我们牵着他走，还居然跟每个人说了“bye”——这个词他从前不会说的。把我们激动坏了。过了一星期，再送他去的时候他也都不哭了，连作势要哭的样子都没有，可以很平静地看着我们离开。

绝对没有说第一家不好的意思，毕竟他在那里挺开心的，老师也都很耐心。要比较的话这两家还是很不同的。想来想去觉得最重要的可能还是师生比。如果一个1:6的和一个1:3的，那个1:6的老师可想而知有多忙，再有好点子都可能没时间忙过来；而1:3的那个，老师就更加从容些，至少更有可能来考虑怎么教育小孩。当然，前提是老师关心孩子，否则再好的师生比都没用。

第一家的curriculum是每个月换一次的，至于每个月有什么不同我也不清楚，其实也大同小异吧，主要是读书唱歌做游戏数数写名字涂鸦之类的，出去活动都是在他们自己的play ground；第二家是每个星期制定下星期的计划，然后星期五的时候会通知家长下星期都要干什么。比如这个星期都是关于秋天的，做叶脉印啦，数南瓜切南瓜玩种子啦，做苹果酱啦之类的，每天出去玩，每星期去一次外面的公园，天气好还会去博物馆或者到外面野餐。相比之下我觉得第二家的计划做得更用心。

说说学历资质吧。一开始我觉得这些都是扯淡，你如果对小孩很不耐烦，就算有硕士学历又如何呢？所以当我们接受了第二家的offer, 正式开始之前要我们去跟director见面介绍学校，又要跟老师见面谈小孩的种种细节，我真觉得有点过分官僚了。特别是当director说，他们所有的老师和助理老师都至少是早期教育学士学历的时候，我有点反感。但是当我们终于见到了他的新老师，才发现经过专业培训的确实很不一样。当然，再重复一遍，前提是老师要爱孩子。也许学教育的和我们不一样，我面对这一个小淘气都有点上气不接下气了，但是对于专门研究儿童的来说，toddler一定是个很有趣很丰富的年龄段吧？

旧学校给我的感觉是，你把孩子放在那，他们尽量保证安全，到点了给换尿布或者带去potty, 给饭吃，帮忙睡午觉，有空的时间一起玩玩，让家长在工作的时候不用担心自己的孩子。再多的就不能强求了。

新学校的似乎有点学院气，说不好听的是他们拿孩子做实验来验证他们的教育方法和理念。比如老师教孩子吃饭的方法是，坐下来一起吃，然后孩子就都跟着学，我亲眼看见几个不到两岁的小孩，吃完之后把碗放到收碗的盆里，连我家狼也知道了把香蕉皮剥下来放在一个特定的专门放香蕉皮的碗里；帮助语言发展的办法是，如果小孩去拿一个球，老师就会告诉他"You took a ball." 如果老师打算去拿一个球，就会告诉小孩"I'm going to take a ball." 这样一个劲地重复。不知道是不是巧合，狼这一个多星期学会了好几个词呢，眼看英文词汇量就要赶上中文了，让我倍感压力呀！

muerustc

in US you can choose how to start and people always debate what is the best way. For the previous one, we took a family picture to the teacher, then we stayed about one hour with him to let him get used to the surroundings, and then I left for the whole day.

krap

muerustc 发表于 2014-11-20 10:40
in US you can choose how to start and people always debate what is the best way. For the previous on ...

可能你认为这个是好，父母花最少的精力达到把孩子托管的目的。。可是这里的人不这么想，这里的想法是怎样让孩子以最自然的方式的过度，最不会给孩子压力的方式。。。这里也有3天就可以托管的，不过不是家长选择这个模式，而是孩子选择的。。从孩子的表现决定到底怎样的方式，适应期的长短。。
anyway。。有一点，楼主可能不必期望了，这里的老师都不可能是硕士学士毕业的，大多数都是做Ausbildung，就是职业培训。我也有认识的读教育学Studium毕业然后当幼师的，不过这个真的很少见了。而且我也不认为这样就一定带的更好。。
你说的在第二个day care养成的好习惯，我们宝儿的幼儿园也是这样的，我很惊讶他在幼儿园吃好饭把盘子，杯子，围兜什么的放到该放的地方才离开，而在家里完全不这样，所以去幼儿园基本上都会养成比较好的习惯的。还有语言，重复句子或者多和孩子对话这里也是一样。
你说的第一个day care我个人觉得是孩子那个时候太小，没有安全感的原因，在那个时期可能去哪个幼儿园都是这个效果。在德国6周就可以去的幼儿园，东边可能还有，西边我没有听说过。。6个月是我听说过最早的。

muerustc

I agree that it might take time for a child to get used to a day care, and I don't want to judge which way is good or bad. And it depends on the children as well. We dropped him for the full day from the beginning, not because we had to work, but we believe for him it was the easiest transition and it worked out fine.

But his current one does not give any option. Seems to me that the teacher tells us a random schedule only according to her convenience, and the instruction from different teachers are quite conflict. We've been visiting many recently and found out that there really are difference, in many aspects. I'm happy to see that there are good ones.

About his 2 previous schools, that post was written last year, one week after he transferred to a new one. He stayed there for one year before we moved here and it was totally positive. I really do not expect the same. As someone questioned, how much did you pay there, and how much do you pay here?

muerustc

再次更新：今天，他开始了新的学校，很开心。Grandma was there with him in principle, but he basically ignored her, so she just wondered around to visit all the classrooms. He had stayed for about 3 hours, and didn't want to leave when we went to pick him up. He told me that the teacher was cool and stronger than his father. The teacher thinks that he would be able to join the class for a field trip tomorrow. I feel that he would have no problem accepting this school at all. Cross fingers.

抱抱枕头

借这个帖子问一下 如果对这个kita不满意 因为一般都是提前一个月取消合同 那之后是不是还要付一个月的钱即使不去？

muerustc

yeah we paid for the extra months also he didn't go there.

utopia2014

kiwi1611 发表于 2014-11-3 17:15
自己现在还没有孩子，但是看到LZ这个叙述
唯一的感觉，德国和美国的差距，不是一点半点的，
认识个德国女 ...